Hey ear-friends! Joel Leslie with your regularly scheduled ramble and a predictable shirtless selfie:

Today I am dee-lighted to rope in the brilliantly talented SJ HIMES. And, spoiler alert, it’s hard to shut us up! Together we have collaborated on the Beacon Hill Sorcerer series (which is amazinggggg), and we’ve just released The Sostice Prince (produced by Tantor Audio). And it has the greatest cover ever…

JOEL: Anyway, hey gurl!

SJ: Hi Joel! Thank you for having me over today and sharing your blog space for the day. Very happy to be here.

JOEL: So both the Beacon Hill and the Solstice series feature very elaborate world building. Was the process of creating these worlds similar or different? How long did it take before you could start writing or did you just develop the rules of the world as you went?

SJ: I am almost 100% a pantser when I start a new project. That first page is what sets the world’s tone for me. When writing BHS, I was combining the current modern world with magic and the supernatural.  In Realms of Love (Solstice Prince), it is totally made up and set in a sort of Game of Thrones world, just fewer boobs, and dragons.

JOEL: I take no issue with the lack of boobs. The dragons, however…

SJ: My approach to creating a new book or series is the same, no matter what genre–I write until I need to start explaining how things work, setting up the rules for the world. It has to make sense, or the whole thing falls apart, but I don’t know the rules before I start writing. That comes after. Sometimes that stalls me, as I have to fit what I’ve already written into something manageable with sensible rules, but other times it flows out naturally without much conscious thought. Realms of Love actually took more thought and planning because I did not have real world rules to fall back on.

JOEL: Was it harder writing within a totally fictional world in Realms of Love, or trying to work a paranormal element into an actual place like Boston for Beacon Hill?

SJ: Realms of Love was much, much harder to work on. I was creating something from whole cloth; I had nothing to fall back on. Visually, it looks like Game of Thrones, but the levels of violence, gore, and evil are not present.

JOEL:  I always felt Al Gore was under-represented in epic fantasy. Oh, wait…

SJ: It looks like a typical epic fantasy world but functions much differently. That’s true for the first book, but the rest of the series will gravitate back towards my typical fare of darker themes, though it will retain the high romance level. Writing the Beacon Hill Sorcerer series (BHS) is so much easier in terms of world building. I hit a snag in real-world rules, I toss in magic. I can’t figure out how to do something with magic, I use the conveniences of the modern world. Writing urban fantasy for me is so much easier, and the world building comes as easy as breathing. And having a place to base my books within, that is REAL, which is so helpful. Boston is one of those cities that moves between the modern world and the past with startling frequency–newcomers to the city are constantly thrown by the literal history they are walking over, standing on. There is no shortage of locations with gruesome histories that I can use in my BHS books. The creation-from-scratch method of world building already has half the work done for me–I just need to figure out how to use it. 

JOEL:  Seriously, though, you do it seamlessly, and I LERVE it.

How much of a fan/listener of audiobooks were you before you thought about putting your first (Necromancer’s Dance) on audio? How did that affect your search for a narrator etc.?

SJ: Brutally honest time: I could NOT listen to audiobooks before I thought about putting mine into audio.

JOEL:  This interview is over. Nothing to see here. Move along…

SJ: I tried a few times, but I read so very, very, very fast–and no narrator could keep up with me. I would find myself getting horribly impatient, and then trying to increase the reading speed, but the sound would get ridiculous, and it was still too slow. The books that were easiest to listen to for longer than a few minutes were the ones with full-on sound effects, ensemble cast, etc, but then that got annoying too. What turned me around was having to look for a narrator for my books. I knew nothing about the process, and I was intimidated. Some fellow indie authors gave me some pointers and suggested I listen to some of the more popular books in gay romance by the bigger name narrators. I tried, and while I could hear the talent, it wasn’t what I wanted or needed for Angel (main character of BHS). Some narrators had strong accent game, but I could detect the common threads of stereotypical representations of regional US dialects. I realized I was going about the process the wrong way–I needed to find someone who could handle the varied accents in my books and do them well, without sounding like an SNL skit. I found a couple, but from asking around, I gave up hope of getting their interest in my book–they were out of my league. Especially since I was going for a Royalty share deal instead of paying per hour. Frustrated, and not really expecting to get a response, I set the book upon ACX, opened it for auditions, and announced with little fanfare that I was looking for a narrator. I knew about a certain narrator named Joel Leslie who was stellar at accents, but I was way too intimidated to send a message or an email–I thought that I was too small of an author, and my book too big of a risk, to warrant interest from someone who was considered to be one of the best in the genre. 

JOEL:  I assume the genre you are referring to is ‘diminutive, hyperactive, fake-grey-haired gay narrators who live in Florida with two wiener dogs’. Yes, I am at the top of my game there.

SJ: The book was live for less than 24 hours on ACX [Audible Creation Exchange, which kind of the Match.com of audiobooks].  I got over a dozen auditions. The first audition was from you, and it made me scream in utter disbelief and joy. I scared my sister! I can say that I didn’t even listen to the other auditions. I swallowed my fear and sent back some notes on the audition, and YOU TOOK MY SUGGESTIONS!! I freaked out in surprise and happiness–You cared about how I wanted the characters to sound and you understood the direction I wanted to go–and you brought Angel and Co to life.

JOEL:  I actually went back and found the note:
“I have one request–can you make Angel’s voice lighter? I love the Boston slipping in and out, but his voice is smidge too deep. He sounds like a much larger and/or older man than he actually is. Take it up a half note?”
This was actually SOOO great to hear, because so often in the m/m genre you’re asked to voice two dueling Alphas, and it can be exhausting. I have said many times that I LOVE that Angel is a protagonist who isn’t that way. He’s a bad-ass, power-bottom and I think it’s amazeballs. I think it’s great when people are ok with a character being sexy and still speaking in a tenor register.

SJ:  I can say now that I do listen to audiobooks, and it’s easier for me to do so when I’m keeping my hands busy–like driving on a road trip, making or eating supper, or painting.

JOEL:  I think a lot of people listen to romance books with their hands busy…but let’s not dwell on that…

SJ: If my hands are busy, I can make myself listen, and fall into the story. (I do still turn the speed up, lol.)

I feel like this is a good time for a gratuitous picture of wieners…

JOEL: Although we are dealing in a fictional world, for Solstice you specifically wanted the royalty to have Welsh accents. It was really exciting, because it’s one of my favorite accents to do, but it doesn’t come up that often. Why was that the sound you wanted?

SJ: The Welsh accent is like listening to magic. I can hear someone speak in that accent for the rest of my life. You once said it was an accent that was “smooth as butter and melts on the tongue”–and listening to it is a joy.

JOEL:  It’s an accent Americans are familiar with, but just don’t know it. Richard Burton, Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta Jones all have quite strong Welsh accents. And, for some reason, when Roy Dotrice voiced Tyrion in the Game of Thrones audiobooks, he gave him a Welsh accent. (And then in book three changed it so Jamie had one too!).

SJ: The royals of Pyrderi are fantastical in their own right–so far outside the fantasy norms of ruthless, arrogant or evil royals that I wanted them to sound as wonderful as they are on the page. I didn’t learn it was one of your favorite accents to do until after I asked you if you wanted the book! Hearing that, it felt like fate. Not to mention that a lot of the locations in The Solstice Prince and further on in the Realms of Love series are Welsh names and places from legend. (My editor Miranda helped with the naming conventions for SP, and she knocked it out of the park!) Honestly, for this book, with you narrating it, came together as if my Muse was pulling strings from behind a curtain. I’m ecstatic as to how this all turned out.

JOEL:  So you and I have a reallyyyyy great working relationship, and sometimes you’re the shoulder I cry on when things aren’t going so smoothly with other people’s projects lol. What do you think makes it work for us? What advice can you give authors when are working in audio that can lead them to a finished product that not only satisfies them but their readers as well.

SJ: I think our relationship works so well because we actually listen to each other, care about what the other person has to say, and we don’t assume there is some hidden agenda or motivation behind our interactions. I trust you. I hope that you trust me. I believe you do, and therefore I do my utmost best to not abuse or take advantage of that trust. (If I ever do, dear, please call me out.) That trust we have, and the fact our creative natures mesh so well helps a lot too. We are both creative perfectionists. We cooperate with each other to get the absolute best product, and we can compromise with each other. I trust that you know what you’re doing in your artistic medium–voice performance and the audiobook market–and you trust me to tell you what you need to bring my characters to life. We talk to each other. We listen, and we respect what each of us brings to the table. I leave my artistic hubris at the door, and you do the same, and we can talk and create together because we aren’t getting into each other’s way. The best advice I can give to authors starting out with audiobooks is this: 1) Find a competent and honest narrator. 2) Learn to compromise and listen. We authors might have created and written the book and characters, but audio is an entirely new medium, and it’s one where we are not the experts. Plus, please, please realize that no one, not even the greatest narrator in existence, can 100% match the voice you have in your head for your character. That’s where compromise comes in. By giving the narrator as much information and insight as possible, you help them get closer to that perfect voice.

JOEL: I am going to have that tattooed on my face. Amen, sister.

SJ: They will never hit it, but the great thing that happens–you’ll find that the voice in your head will adapt to the voice they create for your character. It’s true for me–Joel got 99% of Angel Salvatore, and the character that lives in my head adapted that last degree to fit Joel’s interpretation. By having trust, compromising, and using communication, there is not a project that can’t make both parties happy, and then give readers the world over a fantastic listening experience. Love what you create, then release it. Others will love it, too.  

And you can cry on my shoulder whenever you need to. I’m here and not going anywhere. <3 

JOEL:  Now that you are working in audio, is there anything about your writing that you think has changed? Do you consider how it will sound as your writing in a different way than before?

SJ: The plot and world building haven’t changed at all, but it has affected my dialogue. Before, I never cared about how the dialogue would sound if said aloud–but now I do. I am determined to never again cringe at hearing my own lines said aloud. Yikes. Talk about a reality check. If it sounds fantastic on paper but ridiculous spoken aloud, it is. So I mesh the two extremes now and try to express the sentiment without inducing eye rolls and groans. It also makes me more aware of using languages other than English–I use Irish Gaelic and Classical Latin in my BHS books, and I have to be careful to not overdo it and turn the listeners (and more patient narrator) off by having too much. That’s led to having it used to the best effect, I think, so it has improved my writing. 

JOEL:  GAELLIC: the quickest way to get off your narrator’s Christmas card list.

What do you think is the hardest thing for a writer in the narrator collaboration? How do you handle it?

SJ: Not taking creative changes personally. Leaving my artistic hubris at the door. If we didn’t know each other so well at this point and say we were new to working together, I would have trouble not micromanaging the whole process. I think what’s saved us both from each other going into this process is that I was aware that I knew nothing, and that I wasn’t the expert.

JOEL: What other series do you hope you’ll transition into audio down the line?

SJ: The Wolfkin Saga, my shifter grand epic ensemble, beast of a series! Combined, the books would be over 40 hours of narrations, feature a cast of over 2 dozen characters, and has three main pairings/throuples that stretch over the two books and 15 years. I’ve had to set up a Ko-Fi funding page to get the series into audio since they are so huge. It’s a dream to get them into audio for certain, but it is going to take a while. 

And now… quid pro quo, Clarice.

Sheena’s Turn!! *evil author laughter*

SJ: What turns you off a potential project? No need to name authors or titles, but maybe some examples of what makes you either regret taking on a book or makes you decide you won’t take a contract?

JOEL: The further I get into this work, the more I learn what I think I’m right for. I used to want to be the right narrator for every book. And I’ve learned no one can be. I know when to tell an author (or a publisher), “y’know, I love working with you but I’m really not the right guy for that.”  I’ve learned I don’t love to do gaggles of Alpha males in the same book or series. It’s exhausting for me. I’ve also learned to ask more questions before I take on a series. Sometimes you’ll take on a book and the first story will be a British guy and an German guy and it’s perfect for me… But then book 2 will be a Special ops guy from Omaha and a Marine from Tulsa, and I end up sweating bullets. So, particularly with additive series (ones that branch of from an initial couple and then follow other people in the town, or a group, or their best friends etc), I know now to ask where the whole arc of the series is going before I jump in.

SJ: You’ve mentioned Welsh is one of your favorite accents to do. Do you have other fav accents?

JOEL: Scottish, probably. My best friend growing up was Scottish and they were like a second family to me. It’s like putting on comfy slippers. I also wish I was a female narrator sometimes so I could do a million cozy British mysteries. They are my favorite guilty pleasure as a reader (I’m a huge MC Beaton fan), and I’d love to record those all day. They just don’t write them for guys.

SJ: You’re very well-known for your accent work in narration–have you ever narrated a book in your own, natural voice? Is that something you’d think about doing?

JOEL: Ha! My ‘own, natural voice’ is kind of a mongrel. Because I was raised and schooled in the UK but have American/ Canadian parents, I kind of float around in this weird hybrid. My Standard American accent was kind of ‘learned’ at drama school. But in terms of my own timbre, where my voice sits… I love doing Y/A because it feels like a natural placement for me. It’s one of the reasons why I love Michael Crouch’s work as a narrator… he has this easy, boyish voice that is so expressive.

SJ: Is narration something you see yourself doing as a career for the rest of your life? Have you found your happy place?

JOEL: As much as I never would have thought about it in these terms, it’s kind of the perfect fit for me. My training was as an actor and I spent years working as a director. Because narrators usually have to self-direct, it’s a great use of my skills. I’m also a very demanding boss… I can be a perfectionist to a fault – and I think that working in a less ‘populated’ environment is good for me. I miss the collaborative nature of theatre, but I don’t miss dealing with all the personalities and egos. Most of the time, with this gig, I’m the only diva I have to wrangle, lol. I also love creating something that is lasting. Theater is so ephemeral… it disappears. But creating a performance that people can go back and revisit is an amazing and unexpected treat for me. I’m here for the long hall. I will say that one of the reasons I’m trying to develop my career in other genre (fantasy, y/a and especially pre-teen stuff) is because my voice will eventually age out of m/m romance. No one wants to listen to Wilfred Brimley getting down and dirty. So, thinking ten years down the line, I want to make sure I’m gonna be positioned to do material i’m always right for.

SJ: Can I ask what made you audition for The Necroamncer’s Dance? I’ve literally been too afraid to ask, and I didn’t want to undermine your decision by asking this, but it has been almost two years, so I figure it’s a safe as it’s ever going to be to ask.

JOEL: Two things. I loved the cover. Author’s don’t realize sometimes how much the cover will determine whether a narrator is drawn to a project (particularly if they are going for a royalty share contract). And, second, it’s set in Boston. I really, really wanted to do a book with that accent. My in-laws are from the Boston area, and I had been dying to a book that was really immersed in that sound. I also love it when couples have different accents – Simeon being Irish and Angel being from Boston was catnip for me.
FUN FACT: My husband Rich has this rule he made after my first year of narrating: ‘No royalty share dragons”. Because I kept wanting to do these dragon books that didn’t sell more than like five copies. So, we still don’t tell Rich about Eroch the baby dragon in Necromancer’s Dance!!

SJ:  What book would you love to narrate? Dream narration!

JOEL: I can’t imagine anything better than Harry Potter. So some kind of Y/A British teen fantasy with a gazillion characters would be pretty darn fab.

SJ: What is the hardest part of working in audiobooks? Easiest?

JOEL: Hardest: Living 14 minutes from DisneyWorld and not having much time to go because of my recording schedule. The struggle is REAL.  Second hardest… it really is a 9 to 5 job, which is something I never thought I’d have. I’m schedule within an inch of my life. If I get sick, it’s like watching dominos fall and my calendar goes haywire.
Easiest: Figuring out what to wear to work. (answer: not much)

SJ: How does it feel to be the voice for beloved characters in gay/mm romance?

JOEL: I LOVE getting to give voice to LGBT characters. And it’s kind of amazing to be making a full-time living as, for all intents and purposes, an ‘out gay actor’, when in so many other fields entertainment that is an obstacle. It’s a real privilege. In terms of the ‘beloved’ part… TBH it’s stressful as hell! Personally, I’m an audiobook addict, but I usually choose to discover books that are NEW to me through the medium. So the narrator creates the characters for me from scratch – I have no pre-conceived voice in my head. But in many cases the m/m audience will read the book and THEN listen to the audio. And I certainly stress about screwing it up. When you get cast for a book or a series that people love and are passionate about, sometimes you see threads on message boards saying you’re totally wrong for it before you even START the project. That’s not a fun day at the office. But, I understand that people hear a voice in their imagination that they want you to live up to. Sometimes you nail it, and when it happens, nothing feels more exciting. When people say you take a book they loved and make it even better… it’s the best feeling in the world.

SJ: Thank you so much for having me on your blog post today. Can’t wait to see what we come up with together on our next project, and I love reading your posts about narrations, the process, and slice of life peeks into your world. 

JOEL: Thank you, SJ… you’re the bestest!!!!

You can grab your copy of Solstice Prince on Audio right here!

And, if you wanna make magic happen, here’s the link to SJ’S audiobook funding page if any of you want to help the Wolfkin Saga along on it’s audio journey: http://ko-fi.com/sjhimes

AND HERE’S WHAT I’VE GOT OUT THIS MONTH:

SPENCER COHEN 3 by NR Walker and Tantor Audio
SPENCER COHEN 2 by NR Walker and Tantor Audio

HUSH by Tal Bauer from Tantor Audio

And, my other self, Joel Froomkin had his first release for Scholastic – Book 3 in the amazing Everland Series by Wendy Spinale. If you’re a Y/A fan, it’s Peter Pan goes steampunk and it’s fabulous…

OZLAND by Wendy Spinale from Deyan Audio

And, SJ and I can do a little giveaway… Comment below and I’ll pick someone at random to win a copy of Solstice Prince or Necromancer’s Dance!

xooxoxo

JoJo.

www.joelleslienarration.com

and to learn more about SJ’s brilliance…visit her website 🙂