Ages ago now, I asked a question on my blog: What would you like to see more of in m/m romance? So maybe it’s time to ask a related question: What would you like to see less of in m/m romance? And do you have any hard limits when it comes to what you will and won’t read?
I’m curious, because cheaters. I know a lot of readers hate to read about people who cheat but, as a writer who loves poking around in the grey areas, the sort of character flaws that lend themselves to infidelity are quite compelling to me.
For a while now I’ve been playing around with a particular plot bunny which is based on the premise that one of the MCs is cheating on his fiancée, in order to be with the other MC. The story is written from the point of view of the other MC, who starts off very much the dirty secret in this scenario, and his growing feels for the guy he wants, as well as his growing guilt at being a part of the lies the cheater tells his fiancée.
I know that if I ever finish this book, a lot of people will choose not read it, and I totally get that. Being a cheater, and being cheated on, is not nice, and it’s not something to aspire to, and it’s not how a love story should happen. But sometimes life is messy, and breaks the rules. I have always liked good guys who have a touch of moral ambiguity in them, and bad guys who are all too human.
I’ve tackles a lot of darker subjects before. Sometimes I think that the darker a subject is, the more compelled I am to write about it. It’s almost like a cheap form of therapy. Or maybe I really haven’t matured at all since I was a kid, sending my dolls into the deepest darkest jungles (well, the backyard) and watching them get stalked by vicious man-eating tigers (well, the cat). There’s no nice way of saying it: I like doing terrible things to characters, just to see how they’ll react.
So today I’d really like to know: Where are your limits when it comes to what you absolutely will not read in m/m romance?
What makes you make this face:
The flipside to this question, of course, is what would you like to see more of in m/m romance? What can’t you get enough of?
What makes you make this face:
Up until about a year ago, I used to be such a vanilla reader until friends/bloggers started to recommend and then abducted me to the darker side of reading, now practically anything goes! But, like you said, cheating is something I don’t want to read about. It happens in real life too much and I read to escape these realities, so I wouldn’t spend my money on a book that had a storyline based around that topic.
I’m glad your friends started to get you to the dark side! There’s a lot of great stuff out there.
There certainly is – it’s been an eye-opener!
Cheating, incest, child sexual assault, these things I will not read. Anything else is a go.
I’ve actually read a few incest stories that surprised me. I didn’t think I’d enjoy them either!
Sorry, but you did ask. Really dislike stories where a man who is married/engaged to a woman cheats on her with another man. My empathy defaults to the woman who has been used as a beard, and lied to and cheated on, so makes it very hard to care whether the MC gets his true love. He’s not a good guy to me. This is compounded when the woman is treated with disdain and regarded as a b*tch, and characters act as if she’s being unreasonable for being upset. Incest, another big turn off.
On the plus side, love nerdy, geeky characters getting their HEA. Love damaged guys who find their HEA. Disabled characters getting HEAs.
No need to apologise, Carole! I’d never hold it against anyone for choosing to read, or not read, whatever they want. You’re absolutely right that the cheater is not a good guy. I think I just want to set myself the challenge where I can deal with all 3 people in the triangle with dignity and respect, and certainly not treat the woman as the bitch who was gladly gotten rid of!
I also adore nerdy, geeky characters!
One of the things I dislike about M/M romance is how short some of the books are. 33 pages for $2.99 or more! You really don’t find this in other romance genre’s. Very frustrating.
Does that not happen in m/f? I haven’t read any in years, so I wouldn’t know!
As someone who was cheated on, I definitely cannot read those books. If you can write it or read it, you have not experienced it and I hope you never will.
I love GFY stories and anal virgins, but I don’t like stories where the MCs are really young, like late teens or early twenties. I love books with law enforcement MCs. I also love tattoos and piercings.
Viv, I totally understand why you wouldn’t want to read about cheaters. (I have been cheated on, a million years ago now, but I certainly haven’t forgotten how it hurt.)
I also love GFY. And tattoos and piercing, yes please!
There isn’t much I won’t read with a few qualifiers: If a guy’s going to cheat he better have a darn good reason for it; ‘I’m bored’ just doesn’t cut it with me. Neither does cheating when he’s with a woman because he’s secretly gay – if you want a reader’s respect, be honest with him/her and yourself before slinking off to be with someone else. Incest and child abuse, off page without details, because yeah, sometimes people have horrific childhoods that mess them up – if I don’t like where I think something is going, I can always skip/skim that section. Like I said, I’ll read just about anything, but I absolutely love stories that have those “Holy shit, didn’t see that one coming’ moments in them. 🙂 Even if it’s outside my comfort zone, surprise me, make the victim the hero and I’m on board.
I agree that “I’m bored” is a terrible reason for cheating. I think that I would still like to read (and write) where a man cheats because he’s gay, and acknowledge that he’s gone about things the wrong way, and really try and get into the reasons why. But I love my grey areas!
I also love it when the victim becomes the hero!
No to incest, slave fic, torture, child abuse, animal abuse and rape.
I will put up with cheating if the writer does a good job with the characters and reasons. Also if the other MC is okay with it, it’s reasonable for me to be. As I said, that’s about the writer doing a good job with the characters and the story.
However, I am not likely to like a character who is careless with their partner and their relationship, and will probably not want to follow their story.
I will accept horrific childhoods/experiences off page.
Hard limit? Stories that are too damn short. If I’m looking through a list of book reviews, say, on this blog, and says 72 pages or 32 pages, I won’t even bother looking at it – no matter what the story is about. An exception to this is if I am glommming onto a new author – like Xavier Mayne the other day – and I am reading everything they have ever written because they are so fabulous.
You know what I would like to see more of? Effiminate/camp/gender fluid /drag queens. Androgeny/gender ambiguousness. They tend to be, by their very nature and life experiences, complex interesting people. Billy by Sara York is an example of this. I want more people like Billy in my books.
Also I am a bit over anal penetration as the ultimate sexual act. I’d like MM fiction to reflect real life a bit more, as in what real mm couples get up to in bed.
What I really love? When there is true intense love and passion between the MCs. For instance NR Walker’s Thomas Elkins books have a few things I am wary off – too short/boss-employee/May-December, but I simply adore them and reread them because of the wonderful characters, passion and intensity – including their mutual passion for architecture – of their relationship.
I’m not big on BDSM either, but where there is an intensity and passion and love between the MCs, and I am drawn in by their sheer love of each other, I will read on and enjoy it. This is a fortunate thing as 10 000 mm romances seem to include BDSM (why?).
Sorry if I’ve rubbished on a bit. Thank you for asking.
This is a great list, Des, and some of the thing you want to see more of, I do too! Definitely more gender fluid characters and gender ambiguity!
And yes, to anal penetration not being the be all and end all! (I’m working on a WIP at the moment where my guys don’t have penetrative sex.)
NR Walker is fabulous!
I agree there’s a lot of BDSM out there, and a lot of it focuses too much on the props and the acts, and not the connection between the characters. It’s always slightly disappointing to read, to me, because I love BDSM when it’s done well.
BDSM done well can be incredibly emotionally powerful. I do admire writers who do the research and think through the emotional repercussions properly.
My dislikes:
More sex than story. Sex is great but not when it takes up 75% of the book and consists of cheesy dialogue, “rose buds”, “lover”, etc. over and over and over. There are times when I feel like stock sex scenes are regurgitated with a little story to string them all together.
How short the novels are.
AND most of all – cliffhangers! I’ve been burned one too many times when an author, for one reason or another, decides not to finish the series.
Other than that I love all things MM, hurt/comfort, cheating, BDSM, rentboys, porn stars, just about anything but sweet fluffy stories.
Oh boy, yes I forgot about cliffhangers – I hate them! and I also forgot about when the blurb of the book doesn’t tell you it’s going to be serialised then and justs stops……(and then you’ve got to wait sometimes months before the next one is released)
LOL at rose buds! Does anyone call them that?
I’ve got to admit I’m guilty of writing cliffhangers, but definitely made sure all three books were finished before the first one was out!
I’m also not much of a fan of fluffy stories.
I can’t say I hate BDSM, it’s just not my thing. I’ve read some books with it that I liked. But the actual BDSM bits make me go “but that would hurt! How is that fun?” Heh, I think it’s one of those things you either get or you don’t.
Cheating doesn’t bother me hugely. Life and people are complicated. Stuff happens.
Characters who are really insecure. Despite massive evidence to the contrary they are sure the other character can’t actually fancy them or like them. And when they are also gorgeous, but somehow are oblivious to that fact. I know we’re all insecure in the early stages of a relationship, certain we’re continually saying the wrong thing and about to mess up and look like a tool to the other person and be dumped, but there’s normal insecurity and there’s pathological insecurity that makes me think they need some therapy for self-esteem issues.
The one thing I hate the most is making all the woman characters horrible evil bitches. Sure you can have women antagonists sometimes. I have myself in some of my books. But the contempt for women that pours off the pages of some m/m books makes me sick. They turn into DNF books very quickly.
Yeah. BDSM is definitely sometime that you either get or you don’t.
I love insecure characters, but not when they’re insecure about their looks but secretly gorgeous and every single interaction with every single person they meet should clue them into the fact that they’re hot. I tend to shove characters like that straight into the TSTL category, and then I don’t care what happens to them!
And I totally agree with the woman being evil, horrible bitches. As you say, they can be (and I’ve written a few myself) but I think the problem is there are so many written as evil and horrible BECAUSE they’re women. That’s when I have an issue with it!
Happy Sunday, Lisa. What I don’t read much anymore are “pure romances”. Stories completely focused on the couple with little world building or story beyond the relationship. Before I read mm romance and gay fiction, my true loves were sci-fi, thrillers, mysteries, fantasy, urban fantasy, and some paranormal. I find myself happier back in that environment…now with gay protagonists and a love story woven in. Within mm romance and gay fiction, I still avoid really dark subjects like torture, slavery, substance abuse, mafia/cartels, motorcycle gangs, and most fantasy. I also don’t like menages (unless it’s sci-fi/aliens) and cheating. And I don’t like stories without a HEA or HFN unless they’re a part of a series.
Happy…um Thursday! Wow…this week really got away with me with editing!
I’m a lover of all those genres you mentioned as well. I definitely need a little more in my romances that pure romance, but I definitely skew darker than you, I think!